Really cool! I don't know what I think about astrology, but I like that you are open minded and don't immediately dismiss a book because it advocates for something irrational!
Ah, man, reading your post was like a cosmic trip down memory lane! I hear you, every one of us who’s wandered the mystical road has flirted with some version of astrology, Tarot, or the occult. And, like you, I’ve seen some of that magic turn into empty smoke, illusions that can lead you in circles instead of to the truth.
But listen, from where I stand here in San Jose, close enough to feel the vibrations of the stars and grounded enough in Torah to let it guide me, I can tell you—maybe there’s a little more going on with this “Kosher astrology” thing than meets the skeptical eye.
You see, our tradition doesn’t just dismiss the wisdom in the stars. Nah, the Talmud, the Zohar—they talk about the mazalos, the constellations and forces that the Master of the World set up there, spinning through the heavens. It’s not about predicting every step or letting some cosmic map take away our free will. It’s more like… astrology can offer us a hint, a suggestion of what’s in the air, so to speak. It’s the great potential of what each moment carries, a roadmap to possibilities without ever taking away our freedom to choose.
And Brother, I hear your worry—does “kosher” astrology open the door to every kind of new-age practice? I get it, really. But I’d say this: with the right kavanah, the right focus, it can help deepen our relationship with the Infinite without pulling us into avodah zara, into worshipping other forces. That’s where the kosher part comes in—staying anchored to Hashem, to the Torah, using these signs as a mirror to reflect on our growth rather than a chain to bind us.
So yeah, you’re right to be careful. We need to walk this path with eyes open, always connected to Hashem. But when we tune into the world this way, maybe it doesn’t have to be about splitting between “forbidden” and “kosher” so rigidly but rather seeing what keeps our hearts open to truth. So maybe kosher astrology isn’t perfect for everyone, but for those of us who know how to walk in both worlds, it can be a tool for understanding the Divine language.
Stay groovy and keep seeking, Your brother in the Light
To be honest, I don't know much about astrology, but I am sincerely bothered whenever people present various occult or pseudoscientific beliefs in the name of Judaism, as that leads to a tendency on behalf of the reader to be far less critical and to potentially accept harmful beliefs. I am actually surprised that gave a positive review to such a kind of thing.
Thanks for the comment! You raise a fair point that probably deserves an essay itself to fully flesh out. I'll address it here briefly in three points:
1. I think that intellectual honesty requires acknowledging that various occult and pseudoscientific beliefs are supported by traditional Jewish sources. This doesn't make those beliefs true, but it does mean that we can't automatically say that someone is wrong for saying "Traditional Judaism believes in x." Astrology is a perfect example because it was widely supported by prominent rabbinic figures from the Talmud onwards in a more-or-less unbroken (though very much thinning) chain. Ibn Ezra, for an example that blew my mind, is actually better known as an influential Astrologer than as a Jewish Bible commentator.
At the end of the day, we allow for many extremely creative readings of our texts to allow for new innovations and I truly believe that it's a double edged sword in that we also need to allow for more straight-forward readings that support things we might not otherwise want to be within Judaism. Again, it doesn't mean we have to believe it (everyone is selective about what aspects of Judaism they do or do not accept) but if it's there then it's there.
2. I don't think there has to be an automatic tendency to be less critical as a result of the above. On the contrary, taking nuanced positions on what Judaism allows can mitigate the harm of otherwise problematic belief systems. "Kosher Astrology" is far less problematic in that regard than it's "treyf" counterpart and learning the difference leads to more, rather than less, critical thinking on the part of those who already believe in it. And I don't think that accepting it as a psychological/therapeutic tool necessarily lowers the critical thinking of otherwise critical people. Is there a slippery slope to be weary of? Yes, as I tried to say at the end of the review. But slippery slopes are possible to avoid with the right care and nuance.
3. My positive review stems from the fact that the author made a strong and compelling case that Astrology ought to be seen as an acceptable Jewish belief with strong roots within our traditional texts. He didn't overly cherry pick sources or avoid ideas that were contrary to his position. I was actually surprised to find myself convinced by his arguments, which is a credit to the work he put into the volume. Of course, I wasn't convinced by everything and I'm still not convinced that Astrology has legitimate veracity beyond as a nice psychological/meditative tool. But the book itself is as appropriate on a Jewish bookshelf as any on "The Jewish View of X."
1. While I agree that we ought to be intellectually honest in our understanding of traditional sources, I think that should be limited to dispassionate academic analysis, not normative and prescriptive formats. For example, I think an honest reading of Talmudic sources will reveal the Chazal were not exactly on board with our conception of women's rights, and we would accurately describe them as mysogonistic (at least if they lived today). Doesn't mean we should promote it, and that ought to be seen as a relic of the past, and we should reinterpret theological (although not necessarily halakhic) texts in a modern fashion (which everybody does, even the most conservative hareidim). Should we fudge over the historical truth? No. But should we preach this as a Jewish value? Also no. I think astrology should fall into the same boat, especially since it seems to contribute to harmful attitudes in other topics.
2. Utilizing Jewish sources as a guide in this case might not be the best move. Although it can be used to reject certain extreme beliefs, if you do that on the basis of Jewish sources you're only strengthening the case to follow them in what they do believe (which to clarify, can justifiably be considered simply an ancient belief, with nothing particularly jewish or theologically significant about it). And I don't see the gain of going down this slippery slope.
3. If it was a historical analysis I would be on board with you approval. However, from your review (I haven't read the book) it doesn't seem to be dispassionate history, rather a theological and prescriptive work, promoting something on par with antivax or other anti-scientific approaches to important subjects (specifically mental health in this case).
1. I think there's a nuance here that it's important to keep in mind. Let's use your example of misogyny. There are various contemporary Jewish communities which are (often explicitly) misogynistic and find basis within traditional sources for it. I disagree with them adamantly and push for more egalitarian understandings in my own approach, but I can't say that such communities are inauthentic. I agree with the need to reinterpret theological texts in a modern fashion, the communities which do not do so are still legitimately being true to their textual foundations. If I can't call the most conservative chareidim, chassidim, etc inauthentic I certainly can't call Jewish astrologers inauthentic even if I genuinely believe they are operating under false or outdated assumptions and am willing to call them out on it.
2. I think different cultures will always use their own frameworks as measuring sticks for what is right or wrong. Traditional Jews use traditional Jewish texts, Christians use their gospels, Moslems use the Quran, etc. If someone is already persuaded that Judaism is true and that Jewish texts connect to the will of God in some literal way then these texts are what we judge by. Of course, people are welcome to argue against that assumption but it's an axiom for much of the community. Therefore it's not so much a question of rooting out all supernatural beliefs but filtering out the worst of them from the best of them and achieving as critical of a stance as possible within its framework. The gain of going down that slop is, if you believe it, the greatest possible connection with the Divine will.
3. I think you'd need to demonstrate how meditative astrology is actively harmful to get me to agree with this point. It's a big problem if someone goes to an astrologer instead of a psychologist or a psychiatrist. The same applies if you go to a rabbi or priest instead of a mental health professional. But I don't know many (or any) who do that. If you're not being taught false things (ie that the planets revolve around the Earth, that we're completely bound to whatever our birth charts say, etc) then I don't see it as having any more or less harm than being a sports fan.
Fascinating! You raise good points and valid concerns. As you may be aware if you have some knowledge of tarot, there is quite a bit of conversation re Kabbalah in Tarot - and while I am not sure anyone will ever agree on how it got there (via Jews themselves or Christians appropriating it) I think there are already conversations happening about what is Jewish about Tarot (granted not yet in the Orthodox circles that I am aware of). It will be interesting to see how such conversations go in general.
There are conversations here and there about it, but nothing particularly novel. I personally can't imagine a world in which Tarot finds permission within mainstream Orthodox Judaism because a) their association is with true divination and b) they don't have roots within the Jewish tradition in the same way that Astrology or other kinds of pseudo-divination do. I do know of therapists who have prescribed using Tarot cards to clients to help them face certain issues but this use is few and far between. Even if we were to grant some degree of God allowing cards to fall in particular orders to send messages to people to advise only, it's still a rather hard sell.
Having said that, I've gotten tremendously positive responses in using them in the "how to do cold reading" segment of my shows.
Tarot cards were invented for card playing- most of the deck is the standard one, with tarot cards as extra. The whole use of them for supposed "divination" came later.
@Nachum I believe she's referring to the artwork, not to the cards themselves. The depictions on both the standard Rider-Waite and the more esoteric Thoth Tarot cards contain kabbalistic (more accurately "Cabbalistic" in this case) references. That art came about and became standard after the cards started being used for divination.
Yes- that is what I am referring to. Additionally the people who do use it for divination sometimes claim a framework based in Kabbalah (and the fact that this is clearly something that no Jewish person would do/use that for is why I lean towards such readings being a result of appropriation by the occult).
Really cool! I don't know what I think about astrology, but I like that you are open minded and don't immediately dismiss a book because it advocates for something irrational!
Hey Brother Steve,
Ah, man, reading your post was like a cosmic trip down memory lane! I hear you, every one of us who’s wandered the mystical road has flirted with some version of astrology, Tarot, or the occult. And, like you, I’ve seen some of that magic turn into empty smoke, illusions that can lead you in circles instead of to the truth.
But listen, from where I stand here in San Jose, close enough to feel the vibrations of the stars and grounded enough in Torah to let it guide me, I can tell you—maybe there’s a little more going on with this “Kosher astrology” thing than meets the skeptical eye.
You see, our tradition doesn’t just dismiss the wisdom in the stars. Nah, the Talmud, the Zohar—they talk about the mazalos, the constellations and forces that the Master of the World set up there, spinning through the heavens. It’s not about predicting every step or letting some cosmic map take away our free will. It’s more like… astrology can offer us a hint, a suggestion of what’s in the air, so to speak. It’s the great potential of what each moment carries, a roadmap to possibilities without ever taking away our freedom to choose.
And Brother, I hear your worry—does “kosher” astrology open the door to every kind of new-age practice? I get it, really. But I’d say this: with the right kavanah, the right focus, it can help deepen our relationship with the Infinite without pulling us into avodah zara, into worshipping other forces. That’s where the kosher part comes in—staying anchored to Hashem, to the Torah, using these signs as a mirror to reflect on our growth rather than a chain to bind us.
So yeah, you’re right to be careful. We need to walk this path with eyes open, always connected to Hashem. But when we tune into the world this way, maybe it doesn’t have to be about splitting between “forbidden” and “kosher” so rigidly but rather seeing what keeps our hearts open to truth. So maybe kosher astrology isn’t perfect for everyone, but for those of us who know how to walk in both worlds, it can be a tool for understanding the Divine language.
Stay groovy and keep seeking, Your brother in the Light
To be honest, I don't know much about astrology, but I am sincerely bothered whenever people present various occult or pseudoscientific beliefs in the name of Judaism, as that leads to a tendency on behalf of the reader to be far less critical and to potentially accept harmful beliefs. I am actually surprised that gave a positive review to such a kind of thing.
Thanks for the comment! You raise a fair point that probably deserves an essay itself to fully flesh out. I'll address it here briefly in three points:
1. I think that intellectual honesty requires acknowledging that various occult and pseudoscientific beliefs are supported by traditional Jewish sources. This doesn't make those beliefs true, but it does mean that we can't automatically say that someone is wrong for saying "Traditional Judaism believes in x." Astrology is a perfect example because it was widely supported by prominent rabbinic figures from the Talmud onwards in a more-or-less unbroken (though very much thinning) chain. Ibn Ezra, for an example that blew my mind, is actually better known as an influential Astrologer than as a Jewish Bible commentator.
At the end of the day, we allow for many extremely creative readings of our texts to allow for new innovations and I truly believe that it's a double edged sword in that we also need to allow for more straight-forward readings that support things we might not otherwise want to be within Judaism. Again, it doesn't mean we have to believe it (everyone is selective about what aspects of Judaism they do or do not accept) but if it's there then it's there.
2. I don't think there has to be an automatic tendency to be less critical as a result of the above. On the contrary, taking nuanced positions on what Judaism allows can mitigate the harm of otherwise problematic belief systems. "Kosher Astrology" is far less problematic in that regard than it's "treyf" counterpart and learning the difference leads to more, rather than less, critical thinking on the part of those who already believe in it. And I don't think that accepting it as a psychological/therapeutic tool necessarily lowers the critical thinking of otherwise critical people. Is there a slippery slope to be weary of? Yes, as I tried to say at the end of the review. But slippery slopes are possible to avoid with the right care and nuance.
3. My positive review stems from the fact that the author made a strong and compelling case that Astrology ought to be seen as an acceptable Jewish belief with strong roots within our traditional texts. He didn't overly cherry pick sources or avoid ideas that were contrary to his position. I was actually surprised to find myself convinced by his arguments, which is a credit to the work he put into the volume. Of course, I wasn't convinced by everything and I'm still not convinced that Astrology has legitimate veracity beyond as a nice psychological/meditative tool. But the book itself is as appropriate on a Jewish bookshelf as any on "The Jewish View of X."
1. While I agree that we ought to be intellectually honest in our understanding of traditional sources, I think that should be limited to dispassionate academic analysis, not normative and prescriptive formats. For example, I think an honest reading of Talmudic sources will reveal the Chazal were not exactly on board with our conception of women's rights, and we would accurately describe them as mysogonistic (at least if they lived today). Doesn't mean we should promote it, and that ought to be seen as a relic of the past, and we should reinterpret theological (although not necessarily halakhic) texts in a modern fashion (which everybody does, even the most conservative hareidim). Should we fudge over the historical truth? No. But should we preach this as a Jewish value? Also no. I think astrology should fall into the same boat, especially since it seems to contribute to harmful attitudes in other topics.
2. Utilizing Jewish sources as a guide in this case might not be the best move. Although it can be used to reject certain extreme beliefs, if you do that on the basis of Jewish sources you're only strengthening the case to follow them in what they do believe (which to clarify, can justifiably be considered simply an ancient belief, with nothing particularly jewish or theologically significant about it). And I don't see the gain of going down this slippery slope.
3. If it was a historical analysis I would be on board with you approval. However, from your review (I haven't read the book) it doesn't seem to be dispassionate history, rather a theological and prescriptive work, promoting something on par with antivax or other anti-scientific approaches to important subjects (specifically mental health in this case).
1. I think there's a nuance here that it's important to keep in mind. Let's use your example of misogyny. There are various contemporary Jewish communities which are (often explicitly) misogynistic and find basis within traditional sources for it. I disagree with them adamantly and push for more egalitarian understandings in my own approach, but I can't say that such communities are inauthentic. I agree with the need to reinterpret theological texts in a modern fashion, the communities which do not do so are still legitimately being true to their textual foundations. If I can't call the most conservative chareidim, chassidim, etc inauthentic I certainly can't call Jewish astrologers inauthentic even if I genuinely believe they are operating under false or outdated assumptions and am willing to call them out on it.
2. I think different cultures will always use their own frameworks as measuring sticks for what is right or wrong. Traditional Jews use traditional Jewish texts, Christians use their gospels, Moslems use the Quran, etc. If someone is already persuaded that Judaism is true and that Jewish texts connect to the will of God in some literal way then these texts are what we judge by. Of course, people are welcome to argue against that assumption but it's an axiom for much of the community. Therefore it's not so much a question of rooting out all supernatural beliefs but filtering out the worst of them from the best of them and achieving as critical of a stance as possible within its framework. The gain of going down that slop is, if you believe it, the greatest possible connection with the Divine will.
3. I think you'd need to demonstrate how meditative astrology is actively harmful to get me to agree with this point. It's a big problem if someone goes to an astrologer instead of a psychologist or a psychiatrist. The same applies if you go to a rabbi or priest instead of a mental health professional. But I don't know many (or any) who do that. If you're not being taught false things (ie that the planets revolve around the Earth, that we're completely bound to whatever our birth charts say, etc) then I don't see it as having any more or less harm than being a sports fan.
Fascinating! You raise good points and valid concerns. As you may be aware if you have some knowledge of tarot, there is quite a bit of conversation re Kabbalah in Tarot - and while I am not sure anyone will ever agree on how it got there (via Jews themselves or Christians appropriating it) I think there are already conversations happening about what is Jewish about Tarot (granted not yet in the Orthodox circles that I am aware of). It will be interesting to see how such conversations go in general.
There are conversations here and there about it, but nothing particularly novel. I personally can't imagine a world in which Tarot finds permission within mainstream Orthodox Judaism because a) their association is with true divination and b) they don't have roots within the Jewish tradition in the same way that Astrology or other kinds of pseudo-divination do. I do know of therapists who have prescribed using Tarot cards to clients to help them face certain issues but this use is few and far between. Even if we were to grant some degree of God allowing cards to fall in particular orders to send messages to people to advise only, it's still a rather hard sell.
Having said that, I've gotten tremendously positive responses in using them in the "how to do cold reading" segment of my shows.
Tarot cards were invented for card playing- most of the deck is the standard one, with tarot cards as extra. The whole use of them for supposed "divination" came later.
@Nachum I believe she's referring to the artwork, not to the cards themselves. The depictions on both the standard Rider-Waite and the more esoteric Thoth Tarot cards contain kabbalistic (more accurately "Cabbalistic" in this case) references. That art came about and became standard after the cards started being used for divination.
Yes- that is what I am referring to. Additionally the people who do use it for divination sometimes claim a framework based in Kabbalah (and the fact that this is clearly something that no Jewish person would do/use that for is why I lean towards such readings being a result of appropriation by the occult).