Thanks as always for your thoughtful writing. Beinart is a symptom of the end of the Jewish golden age in America. There are always people who think that if Jews identify with our oppressors, we will be forgiven for being who we are.
I think that Beinart should go to Israel and take a tour of the Gaza envelope and what Hamas did before he served up wishful thinking about Israel and Zionism for Jews who are uncomfortable with an Israel that defends itself
Peter Beinart is a grifter profiting from his token Jew status for antisemitic antizionists. As an allegedly Orthodox Jew he violates that most obvious commandment of Lo Ta’amod Al Dam Re’akha.
Not only does he reinforce the propaganda lies of the far left and Islamist terrorists regarding a ‘genocide’ and ‘ethnic cleansing’, neither of which happened in Gaza, and are actually a projection of Palestinian aspirations and actions since 1920, he also lies about the historical misery of Jews in the Arab world. To quote Benny Morris:
> Jews lived as a minority in Muslim countries from the 7th century - and, contrary to Arab propaganda, never much enjoyed the experience. They were always second-class citizens and always discriminated-against infidels; they were often persecuted and not infrequently murdered. Giant pogroms occurred over the centuries. And as late as the 1940s Arab mobs murdered hundreds of Jews in Baghdad, and hundreds more in Libya, Egypt and Morocco. The Jews were expelled from or fled the Arab world during the 1950s and 60s. There is no reason to believe that Jews will want to live (again) as a minority in a (Palestinian) Arab state, especially given the tragic history of Jewish-Palestinian relations. They will either be expelled or emigrate to the west.
This is the final solution Beinart advocates for. The man is a modern incarnation of the horrifying Yevsektsiya.
I was waiting for this review!! Very helpful and informative- although I'm not sure what to make of the actual content. (Waiting for the comments section to explode :) )
I try to be as even-handed as possible in these reviews, even if that's sometimes unpopular. However, if anyone would like to discuss my takeaways in more depth, you are always welcome to reach out or to comment!
I normally enjoy your heterodox views Rabbi Gotlib but there is nothing to redeem here about Beinart. We have seen his type throughout the ages. He serves up pablum for certain types of American liberal Jews who prefer Zionism-lite and are uncomfortable with Jewish power. The modern State of Israel is a miracle still in its infancy. I applaud your efforts at evenhandedness but as Mr. Furst warns, be prepared for the blowback. Hope to see you at Trump Towers Gaza, with a kosher menu.
To be clear, I think the book has relatively few redeeming qualities and I find his justifications of Hamas violence, minimization of antisemitism, and apparent inability to give Zionists a legitimate benefit of doubt DEEPLY problematic. But I think we have to know how to respond to these kinds of views and that requires understanding them. If my review here help people do that without having to pick up the book themselves, I hope that's a good thing.
First off, thanks for writing this, and kudos for actually including lengthy quotes. I think it would be helpful if you also included page numbers. Now to the actual content.
"Israeli leaders use similar expressions, all the time, to describe the territory they rule… And while the ADL can speculate about how a Palestinian state from the river to the sea would treat Jews, Israel’s treatment of Palestinians isn’t hypothetical."
There's no need to speculate. And it isn't hypothetical. Actual Jewish Israelis who wander into Palestinian controlled areas of the west bank without protection get lynched. There are hostages being held by *the governing entity of Gaza* . Meanwhile, there are Arab members of the Israeli knesset. They aren't always treated respectfully, but they're not a risk of anything remotely resembling a lynching.
"One we cannot ignore simply by questioning the Jewish credentials of those who hold positions like his."
I agree with this. He deserves to be heard.... along with Kahanists and almost Kahanists. Maybe a debate between him and Moshe Feiglin could be arranged. Meir Kahane used to debate the Peter Beinarts of his day too.
In general, Beinart looks and sounds like an NPR program. I don't say that merely as a personal insult. There's a certain mode of thinking which it reflects, a certain highbrow vapidity which is tremendously exasperating. Watch this video of him here https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/for-a-moment-joy explaining why it's okay to focus on the Israeli hostages being released- for a day!- before going back to trashing Israel.
Parting quote, from a 2020 article aptly titled 'Peter Beinart’s Grotesque Utopia:' https://en.idi.org.il/articles/32533 "It’s worth reminding [Beinart's] American acolytes who take his every pronouncement on this country as holy writs (and who find themselves having to conform to his increasingly pietistic demands regarding who must share a stage with him) just how little he understands Israel and how little purchase his ideas have even among left-wing activists and thinkers.
"Beinart doesn’t understand actual Israelis because he doesn’t care about the actual Israel. “Israel” for him is a projection, a cave shadow with which to imagine an argument with people and organizations in American Jewish life that Beinart resents deeply. Even as Beinart’s views on Israel have changed and changed again, his wrath at American Jews has stayed constant and his message consistent: American Jews must choose between their liberalism and their Zionism, between membership in good standing in the community of the good or, sounding almost like someone who tags a synagogue with graffiti, “our community’s complicity in the oppression of Palestinians.”
Nor to anything the Israeli government does either. Or, as a citizen of Canada, to Canada. It seems odd to me to link being Jewish to something so external
The best thing that could happen to Beinart would be for Israel to be destroyed and 8 million Jews genocided or expelled.
Then he could make millions on the speaking circuit "explaining" why it was morally just.
He is the epitome of "luxury belief", someone who pays no price if their beliefs are wrong. He doesn't have to live in Israel or Gaza, instead he exists in a fictional world of mythical Palestinians and Israelis, where terms like "Muslim Brotherhood" and "jihad" don't exist.
Im sorry Rabbi. From the River To The Sea it must be all Israeli. Plane and simple. And there is an old saying that applies here, talk is cheap. While Jews debate between themselves humanity, ethics, and trying to be virtuous and merciful, the Islamists and when I use the term Islamists i mean Muslims, more than ninety percent believe that there should be no Israel. The state of Israel should be destroyed. So Jews can debate between themselves , among muslims that debate or argument has been over for a long time.
Like Ben Abuyah, Beinart should be excommunicated. I do not understand how someone with views so horrendously wrong, whose words are used as an excuse to harass and promote violence, can be in any kind of good standing with the Jewish community.
Thanks for this review. I had seen some chatter on Reddit about this episode of Judaism Unbound and have yet to listen to the podcast, but this adds perspective to things.
"If we are to survive as a global Jewish community, we MUST learn how to listen to each other, share a Shabbat table with one another, and engage in genuine and respectful conversation. Whether you pick up Beinart’s book or not, I hope you are prepared to talk to those you meet who share his views. And I hope they are prepared to talk to you."
I think it's worth noting that Beinart isn't quite so generous himself.
"And then when he’s explicitly asked by the interviewer of the New York Times about American weapon sales, he says ‘that support’—meaning the US arms—‘is vital to make sure Israel has an adequate defense. And in turn, that means we’re not going to have an even broader wider conflict that results in more death and more destruction.’ Sorry!? I mean, like, again, I understand in the nature of these interviews with the Times, the Times reporter has to be respectful, there’s a certain kind of way in which you’re supposed to address a Secretary of State, but what the fuck? I mean, the US, we give unconditional weapons to prevent a wider war and Blinken is saying that this strategy has worked. Has he not been noticing the utter destruction of Lebanon that’s taken place? And also, now Israel’s bombing of Syria? I mean, it’s just, again, this is like a man speaking in some kind of closed room in which he’s hermetically sealed off from reality."
...
...We need to create an environment in this country, in the media, and in whatever institutions that people like Antony Blinken are going to be spending their time in when they leave the Biden administration, that will not accept those answers, in which you simply can’t say, no, it’s not, and then walk away."
"If Antony Blinken thinks he’s going to become a professor at American University, or go to some think tank, or give interviews, or write op-eds in the New York Times, or show up on TV, or do whatever he’s going to do, it is critical for us as a country, as a society, to have the kind of accountability that means that he cannot get away with that. He does not have the right to simply say, no, it’s not end of conversation, right. He must be forced actually answer these charges because they are ultimately charges in part against him, right."
"We have to go outside of our comfort zones in some ways in these elite institutions to be a little bit less polite and be willing to make a little bit more uncomfortable when it comes to these situations, right."
Thanks as always for your thoughtful writing. Beinart is a symptom of the end of the Jewish golden age in America. There are always people who think that if Jews identify with our oppressors, we will be forgiven for being who we are.
Thank You David.
I think that Beinart should go to Israel and take a tour of the Gaza envelope and what Hamas did before he served up wishful thinking about Israel and Zionism for Jews who are uncomfortable with an Israel that defends itself
Peter Beinart is a grifter profiting from his token Jew status for antisemitic antizionists. As an allegedly Orthodox Jew he violates that most obvious commandment of Lo Ta’amod Al Dam Re’akha.
Not only does he reinforce the propaganda lies of the far left and Islamist terrorists regarding a ‘genocide’ and ‘ethnic cleansing’, neither of which happened in Gaza, and are actually a projection of Palestinian aspirations and actions since 1920, he also lies about the historical misery of Jews in the Arab world. To quote Benny Morris:
> Jews lived as a minority in Muslim countries from the 7th century - and, contrary to Arab propaganda, never much enjoyed the experience. They were always second-class citizens and always discriminated-against infidels; they were often persecuted and not infrequently murdered. Giant pogroms occurred over the centuries. And as late as the 1940s Arab mobs murdered hundreds of Jews in Baghdad, and hundreds more in Libya, Egypt and Morocco. The Jews were expelled from or fled the Arab world during the 1950s and 60s. There is no reason to believe that Jews will want to live (again) as a minority in a (Palestinian) Arab state, especially given the tragic history of Jewish-Palestinian relations. They will either be expelled or emigrate to the west.
This is the final solution Beinart advocates for. The man is a modern incarnation of the horrifying Yevsektsiya.
I was waiting for this review!! Very helpful and informative- although I'm not sure what to make of the actual content. (Waiting for the comments section to explode :) )
I try to be as even-handed as possible in these reviews, even if that's sometimes unpopular. However, if anyone would like to discuss my takeaways in more depth, you are always welcome to reach out or to comment!
I normally enjoy your heterodox views Rabbi Gotlib but there is nothing to redeem here about Beinart. We have seen his type throughout the ages. He serves up pablum for certain types of American liberal Jews who prefer Zionism-lite and are uncomfortable with Jewish power. The modern State of Israel is a miracle still in its infancy. I applaud your efforts at evenhandedness but as Mr. Furst warns, be prepared for the blowback. Hope to see you at Trump Towers Gaza, with a kosher menu.
To be clear, I think the book has relatively few redeeming qualities and I find his justifications of Hamas violence, minimization of antisemitism, and apparent inability to give Zionists a legitimate benefit of doubt DEEPLY problematic. But I think we have to know how to respond to these kinds of views and that requires understanding them. If my review here help people do that without having to pick up the book themselves, I hope that's a good thing.
Can we deal with it with fire? Seems appropriate
Kol Hakavod - nicely done
Thank you!
First off, thanks for writing this, and kudos for actually including lengthy quotes. I think it would be helpful if you also included page numbers. Now to the actual content.
"Israeli leaders use similar expressions, all the time, to describe the territory they rule… And while the ADL can speculate about how a Palestinian state from the river to the sea would treat Jews, Israel’s treatment of Palestinians isn’t hypothetical."
There's no need to speculate. And it isn't hypothetical. Actual Jewish Israelis who wander into Palestinian controlled areas of the west bank without protection get lynched. There are hostages being held by *the governing entity of Gaza* . Meanwhile, there are Arab members of the Israeli knesset. They aren't always treated respectfully, but they're not a risk of anything remotely resembling a lynching.
"One we cannot ignore simply by questioning the Jewish credentials of those who hold positions like his."
I agree with this. He deserves to be heard.... along with Kahanists and almost Kahanists. Maybe a debate between him and Moshe Feiglin could be arranged. Meir Kahane used to debate the Peter Beinarts of his day too.
In general, Beinart looks and sounds like an NPR program. I don't say that merely as a personal insult. There's a certain mode of thinking which it reflects, a certain highbrow vapidity which is tremendously exasperating. Watch this video of him here https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/for-a-moment-joy explaining why it's okay to focus on the Israeli hostages being released- for a day!- before going back to trashing Israel.
Parting quote, from a 2020 article aptly titled 'Peter Beinart’s Grotesque Utopia:' https://en.idi.org.il/articles/32533 "It’s worth reminding [Beinart's] American acolytes who take his every pronouncement on this country as holy writs (and who find themselves having to conform to his increasingly pietistic demands regarding who must share a stage with him) just how little he understands Israel and how little purchase his ideas have even among left-wing activists and thinkers.
"Beinart doesn’t understand actual Israelis because he doesn’t care about the actual Israel. “Israel” for him is a projection, a cave shadow with which to imagine an argument with people and organizations in American Jewish life that Beinart resents deeply. Even as Beinart’s views on Israel have changed and changed again, his wrath at American Jews has stayed constant and his message consistent: American Jews must choose between their liberalism and their Zionism, between membership in good standing in the community of the good or, sounding almost like someone who tags a synagogue with graffiti, “our community’s complicity in the oppression of Palestinians.”
I was perfectly comfortable with my Judaism on Oct 6th, and I am now. If more Gaza needs to be destroyed, I will still be perfectly comfortable.
yeah, I don't link my Jewishness to Gaza.
Nor to anything the Israeli government does either. Or, as a citizen of Canada, to Canada. It seems odd to me to link being Jewish to something so external
Missed my point completely.
completely okay with that
so am i
The best thing that could happen to Beinart would be for Israel to be destroyed and 8 million Jews genocided or expelled.
Then he could make millions on the speaking circuit "explaining" why it was morally just.
He is the epitome of "luxury belief", someone who pays no price if their beliefs are wrong. He doesn't have to live in Israel or Gaza, instead he exists in a fictional world of mythical Palestinians and Israelis, where terms like "Muslim Brotherhood" and "jihad" don't exist.
Im sorry Rabbi. From the River To The Sea it must be all Israeli. Plane and simple. And there is an old saying that applies here, talk is cheap. While Jews debate between themselves humanity, ethics, and trying to be virtuous and merciful, the Islamists and when I use the term Islamists i mean Muslims, more than ninety percent believe that there should be no Israel. The state of Israel should be destroyed. So Jews can debate between themselves , among muslims that debate or argument has been over for a long time.
Moishe pipen all over again. These Diasporist monsters appear in real life, and they look a lot like a shanda named Beinart.
Why give this rasha any space to vent his self hating bullshit.
Like Ben Abuyah, Beinart should be excommunicated. I do not understand how someone with views so horrendously wrong, whose words are used as an excuse to harass and promote violence, can be in any kind of good standing with the Jewish community.
Peter Beinart is a very sick man.
Ark of the Covenant anyone?
https://edwardnathanschwarz.substack.com/p/geraldo-rivera-finally-finds-al-capones?r=5e930t
Thanks for this review. I had seen some chatter on Reddit about this episode of Judaism Unbound and have yet to listen to the podcast, but this adds perspective to things.
"If we are to survive as a global Jewish community, we MUST learn how to listen to each other, share a Shabbat table with one another, and engage in genuine and respectful conversation. Whether you pick up Beinart’s book or not, I hope you are prepared to talk to those you meet who share his views. And I hope they are prepared to talk to you."
I think it's worth noting that Beinart isn't quite so generous himself.
https://peterbeinart.substack.com/p/antony-blinkens-mental-prison
"And then when he’s explicitly asked by the interviewer of the New York Times about American weapon sales, he says ‘that support’—meaning the US arms—‘is vital to make sure Israel has an adequate defense. And in turn, that means we’re not going to have an even broader wider conflict that results in more death and more destruction.’ Sorry!? I mean, like, again, I understand in the nature of these interviews with the Times, the Times reporter has to be respectful, there’s a certain kind of way in which you’re supposed to address a Secretary of State, but what the fuck? I mean, the US, we give unconditional weapons to prevent a wider war and Blinken is saying that this strategy has worked. Has he not been noticing the utter destruction of Lebanon that’s taken place? And also, now Israel’s bombing of Syria? I mean, it’s just, again, this is like a man speaking in some kind of closed room in which he’s hermetically sealed off from reality."
...
...We need to create an environment in this country, in the media, and in whatever institutions that people like Antony Blinken are going to be spending their time in when they leave the Biden administration, that will not accept those answers, in which you simply can’t say, no, it’s not, and then walk away."
"If Antony Blinken thinks he’s going to become a professor at American University, or go to some think tank, or give interviews, or write op-eds in the New York Times, or show up on TV, or do whatever he’s going to do, it is critical for us as a country, as a society, to have the kind of accountability that means that he cannot get away with that. He does not have the right to simply say, no, it’s not end of conversation, right. He must be forced actually answer these charges because they are ultimately charges in part against him, right."
"We have to go outside of our comfort zones in some ways in these elite institutions to be a little bit less polite and be willing to make a little bit more uncomfortable when it comes to these situations, right."
We don’t need to vomit at the Shabbat table looking at someone who wants our family in Israel to die. It’s that simple.