Outside of those who are committed to the non judgmental mission of NCSY as opposed what you described as coercion you will see Kiruv on the UWS for adults .I was very active in NCSY and the advisors I was close with allowed me to grow in observance one mitzvah at a time without any element of coercion as you described it until I made the critical life changing decisions as a public school student to become Shomer Shabbos and attend YU NCSY gave me the Kabalas HaTorah especially at its legendary National Conventions and YU’s JSS gave me me the tools of how to learn
Unfortunately my experience with NCSY was very different. The vast majority of other participants (and all of my friends through it) were day school students so there was a lot of pressure to conform fully at a much faster-pace than I was comfortable with in retrospect. My ultimate breaking-point with NCSY was my senior year of high school. I became shomer shabbos and started keeping kosher but was told point-blank that I would not stay frum unless I went to Israel for the year and then to YU for undergrad. One advisor said that he'd buy me a plane ticket to Israel and I'd just have to apologize to my parents when I landed. From there, I cut off ties with NCSY, stopped being observant for a time, and went to Rutgers instead of to YU for undergrad.
I was straight out lied to by the NCSY Regional Director to get me to keep Shabbat and Kashrut. He told me it was a new requirement in order to run for regional president and then the next year after returning from yeshiva in Israel and with YU in my future he told me that it wasn't true, that he said it to push me to make the commitment.
While I understand he thought he was doing the right thing it had a significant impact on the course of my life and I no longer accept any of it. There are definitely manipulative elements of what goes on in NCSY.
When I was an advisor, I literally felt a need to warn outsiders (hotel staff, police providing security, etc..) that they were going to see things that looked like a cult if they were going to be present for Havdalah or Kumsitz. The idea of bringing teenagers into a dark room with music playing, singing and swaying is the same thing that does happen in cults. Kiruv can definitely cross the line.
When I first came out as no longer believing I was actively speaking out against kiruv as the tactics can be concerning. NCSY like any large organization is going to have strengths and weaknesses and some will be more ethical than others. I've been away from NCSY for twenty plus years so don't speak on the current situation and tactics used but there was definitely manipulative tactics used and I was party to conversations where these were discussed.
They definitely pushed the one mitzvah at a time but would also do things to push people over hurdles instead of a natural progression.
“Modern Orthodoxy is (as far as I’m concerned) as close to an ideal Jewish worldview as possible.” I can only agree with this statement to the extent that Modern Orthodoxy also subscribes to Religious Zionism, which requires living in the Land of Israel; any religious outlook that does not include living in Israel [by definition] is NOT ideal.
Yes, I think that Religious Zionism is an important belief within Modern Orthodoxy. Though of course the question of when is the right time for particular individuals to make aliyah is a complex one and thus Modern Orthodox also necessitates rabbinic leaders serving those who remain in the diaspora. This probably deserves a full write-up itself at some point.
If someone is not a rabbinic leader or Jewish educator, then what is the complexity? Does someone have the luxury of electing when to observe Shabbat or kashrut?
Every NCSY alumnus who became Shomer Shabbos and decided to attend YU SC and Touro has a story that they could tell you as to their mitzvah by mitzvah growth in the way that I described and the interaction with their families which was obviously not easy at times
Back in the early 2000s there was a lot of talk on blogs about the need for MO kiruv and much of that was reactionary to the version of Yiddishkeit being offered in Israel by the two main kiruv yeshivos, Ohr Somayach and Aish.
Ideally there should be a flagship MO learning institution for newcomers, but who will bankroll it?
I agree with all of reasons you wrote about why there should be more MO kiruv, but there is an organic structure in place that you referenced in sharing your own rabbinic posts…the MO shul.
MO shuls, especially outside of the tristate areas and the major Othodox cities are natural kiruv magnets. We lived in Indianapolis for 8 years (with around 30 other frum family units) and the OU shul had a good 100-120 people on an average Shabbos. The day school drew in non-Orthodox who wanted a Jewish education and when those parents wanted to learn what they kids were learning the destination was classes or in-person learning through a local Partners In Torah program. People joined the OU shul and eventually shifted towards Orthodoxy, became Orthodox-adjacent, or moved into the eruv.
Out of town communities where MO people live are great entry points to Judaism. The question that you asks about why there are not kiruv positions in major shuls, is connected to what R Dovid Bashevkin has been asking since Oct 7…why aren’t frum shul attracting Oct 8th Jew?
Some shuls do have Outreach professionals, but most MO could easily appoint a few people to keep their eyes open for newcomers.
Reform spaces have seen an increase and even BASE (https://memglobal.org/find-a-base/) locations have had their numbers go up since Oct 7th. Yet, people are not proportionally knocking on the doors of our shuls. Chabad is seeing some new faces, as are kiruv orgs/outreach Kollels. Chabad succeeds at being welcoming because the vibe is “Come As You Are” (yes, a Nirvana reference).
MO shuls can do the same. It just requires a little marketing and allocation a small percentage of the effort involved with a shul’s in-reach (Daf Yom, night Seder, Navi classes, Chesed programs) to let people outside the frum community know that here you will not be judged, you’ll be welcomed. The recent OU study seems to say that there are “switchers” who left Orthodoxy that still want to be connected to their community. MO spaces can be a good fit for some.
Will everyone who enters become frum? No, but I honestly don’t think at this time in our history that every Jew is meant to be frum. They do deserve to feel welcomed and see that you can have a vibrant passionate connection to Judaism, experience Shulchan Aruch-based spirituality (go borrow a phrase from Rav Moshe Weinberger), and be engaged in the world in a meaningful way as part of the unique mission of Knesses Yisrael.
I apologize for the lengthy comment, but this is something that’s been on my mind since before Oct 7. MO Jews (whatever that may look like) are in a unique position to welcome those who don’t want to enter spaces that appear more cosmetically to the right.
I think that any "light" Judaism outside of Israel necessarily becomes either Leftism ("it's all about social justice!") or Protestantism ("just say thanks to God!"). Not saying it's necessarily bad.
Outside of those who are committed to the non judgmental mission of NCSY as opposed what you described as coercion you will see Kiruv on the UWS for adults .I was very active in NCSY and the advisors I was close with allowed me to grow in observance one mitzvah at a time without any element of coercion as you described it until I made the critical life changing decisions as a public school student to become Shomer Shabbos and attend YU NCSY gave me the Kabalas HaTorah especially at its legendary National Conventions and YU’s JSS gave me me the tools of how to learn
Unfortunately my experience with NCSY was very different. The vast majority of other participants (and all of my friends through it) were day school students so there was a lot of pressure to conform fully at a much faster-pace than I was comfortable with in retrospect. My ultimate breaking-point with NCSY was my senior year of high school. I became shomer shabbos and started keeping kosher but was told point-blank that I would not stay frum unless I went to Israel for the year and then to YU for undergrad. One advisor said that he'd buy me a plane ticket to Israel and I'd just have to apologize to my parents when I landed. From there, I cut off ties with NCSY, stopped being observant for a time, and went to Rutgers instead of to YU for undergrad.
I was straight out lied to by the NCSY Regional Director to get me to keep Shabbat and Kashrut. He told me it was a new requirement in order to run for regional president and then the next year after returning from yeshiva in Israel and with YU in my future he told me that it wasn't true, that he said it to push me to make the commitment.
While I understand he thought he was doing the right thing it had a significant impact on the course of my life and I no longer accept any of it. There are definitely manipulative elements of what goes on in NCSY.
When I was an advisor, I literally felt a need to warn outsiders (hotel staff, police providing security, etc..) that they were going to see things that looked like a cult if they were going to be present for Havdalah or Kumsitz. The idea of bringing teenagers into a dark room with music playing, singing and swaying is the same thing that does happen in cults. Kiruv can definitely cross the line.
When I first came out as no longer believing I was actively speaking out against kiruv as the tactics can be concerning. NCSY like any large organization is going to have strengths and weaknesses and some will be more ethical than others. I've been away from NCSY for twenty plus years so don't speak on the current situation and tactics used but there was definitely manipulative tactics used and I was party to conversations where these were discussed.
They definitely pushed the one mitzvah at a time but would also do things to push people over hurdles instead of a natural progression.
“Modern Orthodoxy is (as far as I’m concerned) as close to an ideal Jewish worldview as possible.” I can only agree with this statement to the extent that Modern Orthodoxy also subscribes to Religious Zionism, which requires living in the Land of Israel; any religious outlook that does not include living in Israel [by definition] is NOT ideal.
Yes, I think that Religious Zionism is an important belief within Modern Orthodoxy. Though of course the question of when is the right time for particular individuals to make aliyah is a complex one and thus Modern Orthodox also necessitates rabbinic leaders serving those who remain in the diaspora. This probably deserves a full write-up itself at some point.
What if the Ark of the Covenant Ahron Habrit is right here in USA
https://edwardnathanschwarz.substack.com/p/geraldo-rivera-finally-finds-al-capones?r=5e930t
If someone is not a rabbinic leader or Jewish educator, then what is the complexity? Does someone have the luxury of electing when to observe Shabbat or kashrut?
Every NCSY alumnus who became Shomer Shabbos and decided to attend YU SC and Touro has a story that they could tell you as to their mitzvah by mitzvah growth in the way that I described and the interaction with their families which was obviously not easy at times
Back in the early 2000s there was a lot of talk on blogs about the need for MO kiruv and much of that was reactionary to the version of Yiddishkeit being offered in Israel by the two main kiruv yeshivos, Ohr Somayach and Aish.
Ideally there should be a flagship MO learning institution for newcomers, but who will bankroll it?
I agree with all of reasons you wrote about why there should be more MO kiruv, but there is an organic structure in place that you referenced in sharing your own rabbinic posts…the MO shul.
MO shuls, especially outside of the tristate areas and the major Othodox cities are natural kiruv magnets. We lived in Indianapolis for 8 years (with around 30 other frum family units) and the OU shul had a good 100-120 people on an average Shabbos. The day school drew in non-Orthodox who wanted a Jewish education and when those parents wanted to learn what they kids were learning the destination was classes or in-person learning through a local Partners In Torah program. People joined the OU shul and eventually shifted towards Orthodoxy, became Orthodox-adjacent, or moved into the eruv.
Out of town communities where MO people live are great entry points to Judaism. The question that you asks about why there are not kiruv positions in major shuls, is connected to what R Dovid Bashevkin has been asking since Oct 7…why aren’t frum shul attracting Oct 8th Jew?
Some shuls do have Outreach professionals, but most MO could easily appoint a few people to keep their eyes open for newcomers.
Reform spaces have seen an increase and even BASE (https://memglobal.org/find-a-base/) locations have had their numbers go up since Oct 7th. Yet, people are not proportionally knocking on the doors of our shuls. Chabad is seeing some new faces, as are kiruv orgs/outreach Kollels. Chabad succeeds at being welcoming because the vibe is “Come As You Are” (yes, a Nirvana reference).
MO shuls can do the same. It just requires a little marketing and allocation a small percentage of the effort involved with a shul’s in-reach (Daf Yom, night Seder, Navi classes, Chesed programs) to let people outside the frum community know that here you will not be judged, you’ll be welcomed. The recent OU study seems to say that there are “switchers” who left Orthodoxy that still want to be connected to their community. MO spaces can be a good fit for some.
Will everyone who enters become frum? No, but I honestly don’t think at this time in our history that every Jew is meant to be frum. They do deserve to feel welcomed and see that you can have a vibrant passionate connection to Judaism, experience Shulchan Aruch-based spirituality (go borrow a phrase from Rav Moshe Weinberger), and be engaged in the world in a meaningful way as part of the unique mission of Knesses Yisrael.
I apologize for the lengthy comment, but this is something that’s been on my mind since before Oct 7. MO Jews (whatever that may look like) are in a unique position to welcome those who don’t want to enter spaces that appear more cosmetically to the right.
What if the Ark of the Covenant is right here in USA?
https://edwardnathanschwarz.substack.com/p/geraldo-rivera-finally-finds-al-capones?r=5e930t
I think that any "light" Judaism outside of Israel necessarily becomes either Leftism ("it's all about social justice!") or Protestantism ("just say thanks to God!"). Not saying it's necessarily bad.