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Simon Furst's avatar

Beautifully presented. A few comments:

1) you mentioned in the end that it seems dishonest to say they were originally meant mythologically. I think this is a category error. Insofar as ancient societies didn't build their narratives through an objective method such as the scientific method, the entire intellectual enterprise does not contain distinctions between myth and fact. This means that whether or not it's true under analysis we may be able to do, what they were doing was what Gilman called secondary reflection. Granted, it was probably due to true naivete as opposed to second naivete, but it's place within the religious framework is determined by its mythological significance which was essentially what it's originators were doing.

2) While you discuss the ramifications of treating certain religous truths as myth vs. fact, I think from a scholarly POV that would constitute an argument from consequences. While from an internal denominational perspective these choices are crucial decisions in determining the future direction, doesn't it bother you that there is something missing there that is not considering the claims based on their own value?

3) Even more generally, once we establish that religion uses the language of myth, I see no reason to continue to a priori assume that it's truths are ever objective without confirmation. (This is only a challenge for the approach which adopts mythology wholesale as opposed to some watered down version such as allegory or the like.) Basically, it's either mythologization or not, and I don't see how moderate mythologization as an approach is defensible.

4) if this approach is accepted I think gilmans distinction between a live myth and a dead myth is inevitable. While we can disagree on what criteria precisely determine a myth dead, it still calls for a critical approach towards which elements we continue to uphold or at least emphasize vs. those which are rendered irrelevant.

5) The analysis of Maimonides' approach needs to properly contextualized. Maimonides was facing the challenges of Aristotlean philosophy where arguments are usually deductive, not inductive. His terminology of 'proof' or even 'demonstration' (depending on translation) are relevant for the philosophy of his day, but are less applicable to modern science. This is not that modern science is inherently unreliable as would be suggested by Maimonides' terms (although granted it does have its limits), but because a new approach must be carefully modeled to account for the methods created in the last centuries. While soft sciences are often not 'proven', they are often overwhelmingly demonstrable through inductive arguments and empirical evidence. For example, I would say (and I'm using this example to not offend many modern orthodox sensibilities) that Hebrew being a descendant of Canaanite and earlier semitic languages is an undeniable fact, the lack of 'proof' notwithstanding.

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Thomas P. Balazs's avatar

When religion becomes pure myth, it dies. Myths are wonderful but they are basically a form of literature. And literature can indeed inspire, but it does not sustain community the way religion does. There has to be some element of truth. For my part, if there’s nothing true about the Exodus story, if it’s just an inspiring myth, then it’s not so compelling anymore, and it certainly doesn’t give me chills. If it gives you chills, I suspect that’s because you were raised with it. Music that I was raised with also gives me chills, but it doesn’t necessarily give chills to my child, if you take my meaning.

Jordan Peterson gets by by asserting, psychological truths beneath the myths following Jung. And that works to an extent, but even Peterson is moving toward belief. Without some level of literal belief, mythology does not command our allegiance. And we might just as well find meaning and say, Hinduism.

But I like the approach at the end of modified mythology. It won’t satisfy the rationalists as you can see from some of the comments here, but it allows many of us to maintain our allegiance to Judaism.

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