I myself have read this book cover to cover. I think it is an expose of what real life in the Chareidi community looks like - and how cultlike it is in many ways. I also was very disappointed in the way he framed individuality. To paraphrase "Everyone who wears black hats and white shirts are forced to develop a stronger sense of individuality" Not true. Not in the slightest.
He also doesn't seem to have any self reflection about whether the Chareidi community is actually correct. It is automatically taken as a given.
Yes, agreed on both fronts. I was debating including a section on the individuality/black hat stuff and chose to leave it out for space but it is definitely something that ought to be pushed back on. And he does not at all reflect on the veracity of Chareidi claims, preferring to take them for granted. Both are major issues with the book.
Honestly, it's full of great advice to helping baalei yeshiva stay. But it would have been more validating had he said something like "our society is unhealthy this way, but that's the reality, so if you want to stay this is what you've got to do ". But he never says anything along the lines.
I just read this comment and liked it but I can't help but add that the issue of how cultlike Charedi society currently is greatly depresses me, and specifically because I am as Charedi as they come. I am even a descendant of the first Chief Rabbi of the Edah Hacharedis, and my grandfathers, father, uncles were traliblazers in the Yeshiva and Kollel system.
Perhaps because of this I grew up viewing Charedism as traliblazing and individualistic, as idealizing being a lamdan and glatt, and I am horrified by what it has turned it into and how it seems to become more and more of a cult as time goes by. I am sitting and wondering how will all this end? Will some reasonable people eventually manage to band together and return to the original concept of Charedism and yeshivaleit?
Ah, my dear brother Reb Steve, I haven’t read Rabbi Greenwald’s book yet, but the title Life After Teshuvah really grabbed my attention. I first heard about it from your post, and the way it addresses Baalei Teshuvah reconsidering their choices down the road really intrigued me. Maybe I’ll check it out from the local library. But I have to say, it’s surprising that the book seems so narrowly targeted.
You know, Rabbi Greenwald's dad was an amazing diplomat who did wonders for Jews worldwide—Ashkenazi, Sephardi, religious, secular, you name it. He worked across the spectrum, and maybe that’s why I’m surprised by how niche this book’s audience seems to be. Baalei Teshuvah are giants, but why limit the conversation to just one slice of the community?
And then I wonder... what does the Master of the world think about all of this? Does God want us to fit into these tight boxes, to hide our individual journeys and struggles? Or does He want us to live authentically, to express our Yiddishkeit even if it makes us stand out? Maybe the book will open that conversation, or maybe it’s keeping things a bit too closed. Either way, it’s got me curious.
Perhaps the issues are that of using the best elements of one’s pre BT life as opposed to extirpating the same and of going too far too fast in deciding what to observe where to learn what type of spouse family life and community will be best for a potential BT Once upon a time YU had a great program called JSS where the emphasis was on learning it snd not about it ( i.e.becoming textually literate in classic Torah texts with no English language crutches before taking on the outer lvush of the Ben Torah ) Perhaps such a program and a decreased reliance on English language crutches should be considered as opposed to having the outer manifestation of frum dress especially for men which is important as noted by Chinuch but which should never be considered a substitute for textual literacy in our classic texts
I myself have read this book cover to cover. I think it is an expose of what real life in the Chareidi community looks like - and how cultlike it is in many ways. I also was very disappointed in the way he framed individuality. To paraphrase "Everyone who wears black hats and white shirts are forced to develop a stronger sense of individuality" Not true. Not in the slightest.
He also doesn't seem to have any self reflection about whether the Chareidi community is actually correct. It is automatically taken as a given.
Yes, agreed on both fronts. I was debating including a section on the individuality/black hat stuff and chose to leave it out for space but it is definitely something that ought to be pushed back on. And he does not at all reflect on the veracity of Chareidi claims, preferring to take them for granted. Both are major issues with the book.
Honestly, it's full of great advice to helping baalei yeshiva stay. But it would have been more validating had he said something like "our society is unhealthy this way, but that's the reality, so if you want to stay this is what you've got to do ". But he never says anything along the lines.
Absolutely agreed.
I just read this comment and liked it but I can't help but add that the issue of how cultlike Charedi society currently is greatly depresses me, and specifically because I am as Charedi as they come. I am even a descendant of the first Chief Rabbi of the Edah Hacharedis, and my grandfathers, father, uncles were traliblazers in the Yeshiva and Kollel system.
Perhaps because of this I grew up viewing Charedism as traliblazing and individualistic, as idealizing being a lamdan and glatt, and I am horrified by what it has turned it into and how it seems to become more and more of a cult as time goes by. I am sitting and wondering how will all this end? Will some reasonable people eventually manage to band together and return to the original concept of Charedism and yeshivaleit?
Ah, my dear brother Reb Steve, I haven’t read Rabbi Greenwald’s book yet, but the title Life After Teshuvah really grabbed my attention. I first heard about it from your post, and the way it addresses Baalei Teshuvah reconsidering their choices down the road really intrigued me. Maybe I’ll check it out from the local library. But I have to say, it’s surprising that the book seems so narrowly targeted.
You know, Rabbi Greenwald's dad was an amazing diplomat who did wonders for Jews worldwide—Ashkenazi, Sephardi, religious, secular, you name it. He worked across the spectrum, and maybe that’s why I’m surprised by how niche this book’s audience seems to be. Baalei Teshuvah are giants, but why limit the conversation to just one slice of the community?
And then I wonder... what does the Master of the world think about all of this? Does God want us to fit into these tight boxes, to hide our individual journeys and struggles? Or does He want us to live authentically, to express our Yiddishkeit even if it makes us stand out? Maybe the book will open that conversation, or maybe it’s keeping things a bit too closed. Either way, it’s got me curious.
Perhaps the issues are that of using the best elements of one’s pre BT life as opposed to extirpating the same and of going too far too fast in deciding what to observe where to learn what type of spouse family life and community will be best for a potential BT Once upon a time YU had a great program called JSS where the emphasis was on learning it snd not about it ( i.e.becoming textually literate in classic Torah texts with no English language crutches before taking on the outer lvush of the Ben Torah ) Perhaps such a program and a decreased reliance on English language crutches should be considered as opposed to having the outer manifestation of frum dress especially for men which is important as noted by Chinuch but which should never be considered a substitute for textual literacy in our classic texts